Be a Believer in Humans! Author, Activist, Educator, Julie Lythcott-Haims

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Greetings, friends! I'm Linda Tighe, and I have the great pleasure of podcasting today with my two dynamic a2yo cohosts

Kate: 0:33

Kate Leavey

Rhonda: 0:34

And I am Rhonda Garvin Conaway and we are also joined by our very talented producer Cathy Carswell.

Linda: 0:41

So friends for today, this conversation is an invitation to grow deeper. The world seems to have turned upside down. I don't know about you, but it feels like we've forgotten about who we are. I love what Julie says on her website. I believe in humans, I'm rooting for all of us to make it. I've come to appreciate that despite our innumerable differences. We all want to be treated with dignity and kindness. We all yearn to know what we that we matter. We all want to be seen, accepted and loved, simply as we are. If you too are rooting for all of us to make it keep listening because today we are talking with Julie Lythcott-Haims. Julie lLythcott-Haims believes in humans and is deeply interested in what gets in our way her work encompasses writing, speaking, teaching, mentoring, and activism. She's a New York Times best selling author of How to raise an adult which gave rise to a popular TED talk which is phenomenal by the way. Her second book is the critically acclaimed and award winning prose poetry memoir, real American, which illustrates her experience as a black and biracial person in whitespaces. Her third book, your turn, how to be an adult, has been called a groundbreaking Lee Frank guide to adulthood. Julie holds degrees from Stanford, Harvard Law and California colleges of the arts. She currently serves on the boards of Common Sense Media Black Women's Health imperative narrative magazine and on the board of trustees at California College of Arts. She serves on the advisory boards of llenan. Org Parents Magazine and Baldwin for the arts. She lives in San Francisco Bay Area with her partner of over 30 years. Their inherent young adults and her mother Julie Lythcott-Haims' most recent book, Your Turn, as I said, is a groundbreaking Guide to Being a grown up. In your turn, Julie offers compassion, personal experience and practical strategies for living a more authentic adulthood, as well as inspiration through interviews with dozens of voices from the rich diversity of the human population who have successfully launched their adult lives. Thank you so much for being here. We are thrilled to be talking with you today.

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 2:42

Kate, Linda, Rhonda, thank you so much, and to everyone who's listening. Thanks for joining us on this journey today. Well,

Kate: 2:49

Thank you for being here. And, I have to say, I was particularly awestruck, when I found out that you were going to be with us, because I've heard you speak -I've read your books - and of course, I've tuned into the TED talks as well. You're just a real guru of mine. And I feel like your work is like one part poetry and one part hard-talking-truth-teller. And, what is particularly thrilling for me is that I feel like I hear speakers all the time - and I read all the time. But, rarely do you have an author who is as dynamic, as her writing, in person. Like, you are an amazing public speaker. And you speak as beautifully as you write. And I don't think those things always go together. But people are in for a treat in our podcast, for

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 3:35

You just made my day and I was like, wow, sure. I want my mama to hear this! That's really kind of you. I appreciate it. And I think I, I came to life first, as a person who knew herself through oral rhetoric, I knew that I could speak in a way that felt good to me and seems to feel compelling. But the writing piece came later in life. For me, I had no confidence in my writing when I was young. And I, I really worked very hard to try to become someone who could put words on the page effectively. So I really appreciate that compliment.

Linda: 4:12

And I just want to say, when I first read on your website,...and your website's put together really beautifully too - it's like it's visually beautiful, the words that you've chosen to put there. And, I just love that you still believe in humans, and I read that and it hit me deep into my soul - like I really I'm so happy she believes in humans because I want to believe in humans. And I feel like right now it's like: Can we still believe in humans? Are we going to make it and not kill ourselves off as a species on the planet? So thank you for that that hope.

Unknown: 4:39

Absolutely. I like to remind folks that our ancestors went through worse, yes, other than the climate change the climate catastrophe that is unfolding. It is quite likely we're all descended from people who endured worse than this. So these are not the worst of times. Times, and we have so much going for us, I think if we could get the climate situation harnessed, and if we could unlearn the hatred we have toward people who are different than us, we could really look out into the next millennia with confidence that we're going to be okay.

Linda: 5:18

Absolutely. Your work on so many levels is helping and guiding us through that. You know, the last time we spoke on a podcast, you were talking about Raising Real Adults, and it's just a great name for that book. And I realized that I was doing some helicopter parenting and and you really helped me to understand Wow, that's, uh, you know, what, what damage that is, and not not that it's intentional, of course, but then I didn't have that; my parents like, you know, I was gone all day long playing in the woods and playing the fields, and nobody knew where I was or, you know, and so, so different. So, how do you do that? How do you give your kids roots? I know, this is a big question. It's very broad, but...and then allow them to have their wings.

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 5:57

Yeah, I agree. And as you know, I wrote that book on the harm of helicopter parenting, only to discover increasingly, as I wrote it, published it, and then toured it, which has now been, it's been out for seven years, I've increasingly learned that I too, have been a helicopter parent all along. I thought I was like, "Now y'all, you need to not do this." And I was like, "Oh, hey, shoot, I'm doing it." And so I really get it as like sort of why we seek to micromanage. It's really micromanagement - just have to know every little thing - have to make sure - have to remind - have to handle it for you - have to know. And I've come to really appreciate that. It undermines a kid's sense of confidence, because it's sort of like saying, I don't believe in you. So I have to do it. I'm worried you can't. So I better handle it. Like you I don't trust you know, it's terrible. We don't mean to, but that's the message they get. And they don't develop skills, because we're they're handling every little thing smoothing out the path. So they end up grown and less capable.

And and everyone's like: 6:56

why don't they launch into adulthood? It's like, well, they didn't get the chance to practice any of the stuff that adults need to know. So I bring this tremendous compassion for the young people, which is all about what my new book your turn is about. I'm helping them begin to thrive in their adult lives. But where's the balance? I think you're asking sort of roots and wings, roots and wings are the - are exactly what we want to instill. Roots, in a sense of - you know who you are, you've got great values, you know how to work hard, you know you're unconditionally loved. Those are the roots. And the wings are you have the ability to go wherever you want to go and try what you want to try with confidence that as long as you have a mentality of I'm here to learn and grow, not going to be perfect. I'm just going to try it and I'm going to learn from it. Even if I stumble, I'm going to get back up, learn from it. Try again, right? That's the wings, right? That's the ability to kind of go where the wind takes you, I got these strong wings, and I'm gonna you know, I might get a little low. But I'm still you know, I can keep those wings on furled and fly. Look, it's our egos as parents. It's true. Right? We need like, I need her. So therapy - therapy is the answer. A lot of good. Figure out why do I need to micromanage my child like they're a dog on a leash. They're not a dog. They're a human being. Yeah.

Kate: 8:16

And how did the world change, because, as we were saying, we weren't raised this way. I love this book. I feel like it's a great guide that everybody should read. It's seven years in, and it seems so predictive of what has been happening. I wonder if you can reflect with us about what two years of COVID added on top of the really challenging issues that you were already mentioning, and then throw in the addition of two years and so what are we now if we're not helicopters are we Zamboni? Whatever we are - it's, it's it's different.

Unknown: 8:50

I think, obviously, COVID has been hard for people of every generation. Very young kids middle, you know, 12 to college-aged kids, young adults, the rest of us adults, it's been hard for every group for different reasons. We know that young adults, teens, and young adults, we're already dealing with high levels of anxiety and depression all over the United States, particularly in communities where there's all of this pressure to be perfect. And then the pandemic hit and just brought a whole new level of really poor mental health. Where overparenting then comes in is when a kid let's say - like, I'm right now I'm in I'm in an air b&b Talking to you because I'm visiting my daughter who's a 20 year old on a college campus. And, she came home to us during the pandemic from her freshman year in college, and our elder one was 20. So, the little one was 18. And so her entire world, you know, was shrunk back down to her childhood bedroom. Some of us parents in that circumstance reverted to the sort of ways of being as if our children were still 12 and 13 and 14, even though they're 18, 19, 20. So, we treated them like children, some of us and some of the kids wanted that, you know, but some of these young people move back home and we're like, I'm accustomed to a lot more independence and freedom, I make my own decisions. I handle this just fine without y'all like, I don't need you to cut my meat right - don't revert, right? And those young people were more likely to then say, "Look, can I help out? Can I do the grocery shopping? Can I handle this task like living at home as kind of CO equals as equal? We're all adults here." So, the pandemic both provided an opportunity to double down on helicopter parenting and micromanagement or to like, "Hey, no, no, we life is chaotic. And everybody has to do different things now and we need our, our young adult children to pitch in and and behave as a as a co equal." So, it could go either way.

Rhonda: 10:47

Yep, I love this conversation in the reflection upon where where we've been in the past. And if we embrace the idea of learn and grow, as we move forward, it's that cyclical piece, reflect, acknowledge, move forward, try again, and then reflect and try again. So you mentioned earlier that there's a real source of inspiration from our ancestors that moved me can you talk a little bit more about that idea of what we can learn from our ancestors, even though the times in which we're living look vastly different?

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 11:22

It's no one's ever asked me this before, Rhonda. So, thank you for the opportunity. Life is pretty easy in the 21st century, you know, I think about my mother and her mother, and my great grandmother in Yorkshire, England, who were in a coal mining town. And I think about the stories my mother tells him hand washing the laundry outside. And I'm mad because my dishwasher broke, and I have to hand wash. One generation ago, my mother was scrubbing laundry against a washboard, doing dishes by hand. And, and her house was about this big, and my house it by comparison. And, you know, my my father's people were originally from Africa, and were enslaved here in America and my husband's people are Eastern European Jews. And I just think of the tenacity that those folks must have had to summon to just get through a day a week, life was harder, health care was worse, health life expectancy was shorter children died frequently, you know, it's just in some ways, I don't know, I think we're disconnected from how to make things, how to create things, how to persevere against the odds. You know, struggle makes us stronger, in many ways, which is why I think there's a hidden silver lining from this pandemic, you know, which is, when the rug has been pulled out from under you, when you can't rely on your normal routines, it forces you back into thinking instead of like, you know, "Alexa, how do I solve this problem? Or Siri come solve the pandemic?" It's like, "No, I've got to actually be a part of the creation of a new way of doing things, or a new way of working or new way of the family is going to function or what have you." It's really kind of requiring us to kind of activate some of these capacities from the people we're descended from, like no, no, no, some of our folks, you know, headed out across a barren piece of land to try to find, or across the sea or whatever, to go find a better life. I live in California. And whenever I drive over the Sierra Nevada Mountains, I'm just struck by the fact that, you know, folks went by horse and buggy over those mountains. And there's a lot that's wrong with colonialism and the taking over the West by the Europeans who came and took it from the Native Americans. I'm not not trying to make a political statement here. But just to say that we come from people wherever they're from, who persevered against so much more. So I think that's what I try to summons like, you know, we are the highest points in evolution of all of our families. We've all like, we the latest to be born, we benefit from everything our ancestors went through and gave us and I think we should remember the gifts of that.

Kate: 14:06

Yeah, reconnecting to history and our own personal

history. I think that it does: 14:09

maybe we need to stop saying, "Oh, these are such hard times." An think - uh, it's a lot harder, as you were saying even 1-2-3 generations back.

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 14:18

And let me say one other thing, Kate, one thing, which is we can say, "Well, these are hard times" - and then we should pause and say, but we do hard things. Yeah, man, this is hard. And we do hard things.

Kate: 14:33

We got this.

Rhonda: 14:33

Yeah. And we're being called to summon that tenacity and creativity to rise to the challenge that we're being brought to in our generation,

Linda: 14:44

because this is our time and our challenge.

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 14:46

Right on right. Yes,

Kate: 14:49

So, I have Real American... for those of you who are not watching it, I'm holding it up. It's got the most adorable picture of you when you were a baby one - but I wonder if we can talk about this a little bit in and talk about the story that unfolds within this great book.

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 15:04

Yeah, so I'm 54 As I sit here with you, I'm a black, biracial, cisgendered woman. My father was an African American man who died more than 25 years ago. My mother is very much alive, a white British woman. And when they fell for each other in 1962, it was against the law for them to be in relationship, for them to be married, and choose to have a child. And so, I am pretty sure I came into the world knowing I was transgressive. You know, I got looks from strangers that showed me something was wrong with me, I couldn't call it racism then but I was taught you're outside the line, they didn't have words from people that were polite. So I think my rooting for all of us, as you so beautifully relayed, Linda, at the top of the show, Julie roots for humans, like I think that comes from me feeling like an outsider, like, I'm outside the line, the boxes humanity draws, like, I'm over here, I'm outside, I don't fit. They tell me I don't belong in these boxes. And so I think it gives me compassion for the other people who have been marginalized or treated with with, not with dignity and kindness. That's why that's on my website, you know, like, I think I have had some of those unkind experiences, and I really don't want anyone subjected to them. So that book is this very visceral, vignette driven, small story driven narrative, from my earliest childhood to the presence of we dealing with being in this body with this color with this hair, in this America over these decades. And confronting the or experiencing the microaggressions, we would call them or sometimes outright hateful racism. And what it did to me, it began to distort my sense of self. I really, you know, as a teen, became somebody who just hated who I was, and was embarrassed, you know, by my black father, which just pains me to say, because he was such a magnificent human being, and I adored him. And yet I was ashamed of blackness - to the black because of what I was being taught. It's just my own sense of self was distorted, it was like, this poison was dripping onto me, and it was making me contort and try to behave differently, so that people wouldn't see me as the problematic black person. I mean, look how light I am, right, I haven't lived a life that is in any way resembling that which darker people endure. But even with this light skin, I was told repeatedly how problematic I was and unacceptable in any way. So that's what that book is about. Ultimately, I come to - I dip into the self loathing, but then I come out of it to this place, innocent child self loathing, middle years, and then this, finally, this place of self love in my 40s, just in time to try to help my two children figure out their identity and their place in this America as mixed race kids in the era of Black Lives mattering. And so that's what that book is about deeply personal, very vulnerable. And the best thing about it, Kate, is that people will write me and they'll say, no one has ever told this story. I've gone through it to like, not no one has ever told it. But I've never read a story. So like my own, and then I'm delighted to reply, I wrote this for all of us. I'm trying to help you feel less alone. I'm trying to feel less alone, when we can dare to share some of the shit we go through. We we find ourselves in community with people who get it. And that's a beautiful thing.

Kate: 18:34

I just keep wanting to say, Amen. Your style of speech. And just the thoughts that you bring forward are just so it's beautiful. And it's an it's an it's hard. Your writing is challenging, but it's also just so genuine. And I do think that your humanity and that sense of love, and a desire, I don't know how to heal, to heal these divides. If anybody's ever felt marginalized, if anybody's ever felt left out, I feel like your writing and your philosophy is very inclusive, and it and it wouldn't have to be you know, considering things that you have experienced. You've got a an incredible voice for our time. It's why I consider you one of my gurus. So that's why I'm kind of like gushing over myself.

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 19:19

I'm so honored. I don't even know what to do with that, because it's so big, but I'm just gonna take it. And just with gratitude, say thank you for I think you really see what I'm about. And you're seeing layers beneath what is evident on the surface of my writing or my talking or whatever you're like really getting into it. And I'm just grateful that that my stuff, my journey and my work is resonating with you. And you're so welcome.

Kate: 19:49

Well, I It's been super important and I don't want to make the podcast about me. But in terms of your writing, three of my four children are people of color and it's been beautifully relevant on so many levels. And you know, not only the Practical Guide to like how do I raise kids in this day and age, but also to give me that kind of the intimacy of that book - super grateful?

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 20:11

Well, it's, I thank you for sharing that. And I don't know how often you do on the podcast, whatever you're willing to say more about either their ethnicity or who their, what their parentage is, I'd love to know. I have a white mother. And she's done her darndest to try to raise me to be a woman who would love myself in my ancestry and within and features I've got. And as you know, from reading that book, I take out on her my the anger that I finally was able to feel that my parents chose to raise me in all white places, my black father is the one I really should be yelling at, because he's the one who should know better, who should have known better, but he died when I was 27. And I didn't have the wherewithal to know myself, to have the agency to have this conversation. So, unfortunately, I took it out on my white mother, who was in her 70s at the time. And, you know, she never said, she never said anything other than "all I wanted was for you to love yourself in your, you know, as a black and biracial person, that's all I've ever wanted. And if this anger is a part of you're coming to terms with that, then I'm here for it," - you know, if she was magnificent. And I give her a lot of credit for being a kid born in England in 1939, married a black man from America. You know, in the 60s, that woman was just 100 years ahead of her time.

Kate: 21:35

There were no books like these that she could call upon.

Rhonda: 21:40

Julie, having written that book, and you are so gracious and talking about the vulnerability that was required? How did life changed for you, you mentioned that you you found more community, you connected with others, who felt a similar experience, and it resonated for them. But let's talk about you - what what changed in your world having written that book,

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 22:03

the first thing is the most terrible things, which I, I sort of dug them up was like they were hiding and had burrowed down into my spirit. And I kind of went in and excavated them, and brought them back up to my own consciousness. And then I put them on to the pages of a book, they were released from me, they're no longer memories that are painful things lurking in my body. Because I have one, when we give voice to difficult memories, in general, being very general here. It tends to be a process through which we release them. So it's a catharsis. And I didn't know that would happen. I mean, I was they were so viscerally there, I could, I could remember the voice, the colors, the clothing, whatever, you know, once I got them out on the page, they live on the page now, and they're no longer in memory. So now when I try to recall the memory, it's actually more accurate on the page. Because my own memory has been like, Yeah, we don't need that anymore. It's not in here, which is just wow. And then the community - feeling that, you know, I was this brown skinned, black biracial kid who didn't have any black friends, any friends of color, we lived in all white spaces. And now my life is richly diverse. Yes, I still have plenty of white friends, my husband is why my mother is white. But my life is just richly diverse with people. And I love that. And that is a joyful thing. And I think if I could go back and tell my little lonely nine year old self, or 13 year old self, you know, or 15 year old self like, well, this will ever be asked to the prom kind of thing. Don't worry, when you get older, you're going to be able to choose where you live, you're going to know yourself for what you actually done a love your natural hair, you're going to love it, you're going to be on a podcast and go like this and be like, I love this stuff. What's wrong with me? Like, I think my younger self would just cry, just weep if I could go back in time and reassure her like, don't you worry, sweetheart, it's work itself out, whoo, being in community now with folks who don't regard me as an oddity, but regard me as a human of worth and value and being able to convey the same to others that being the author of this book has brought me into those spaces. And that brings me a lot of joy.

Rhonda: 24:22

Thank you,

Kate: 24:24

We are going to shift a little bit now into this segment that we call the golden nugget. And we get such good feedback. And you've already offered us so much wisdom, but I wonder if there is either something that's really meaningful to you or that you've experienced in your life or in your work that you could offer now to our listeners who are at a point of

Unknown: 24:41

Thanks for the opportunity. First of all, my transformation. new book is an enormous book. It's 459 pages long because it's about how to live your best adult life. It's called YOUR TURN and it's not short because life is long. And it's not just like tips. It's like deep stuff. But I think one of the main golden nuggets I hope of that book is this. This is your one wild and precious life here. I'm quoting the late poet Mary Oliver, what are you going to do with your one wild and precious life? She said. So I'm telling readers this is your, no one else's, one, as far as we know, wild, meaning untamed, unscripted, unmapped and precious rare, unique value. Life. Right? Listen to those words. It's yours. Okay, you decide. And it's never too late. And you can always pivot toward the next thing. Okay? It's there's no right track. There's only the track right now. That's right for you. Okay, it's not about what other people think, all the noise in your head about?

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 25:48

Well, I should or I ought to, or my parents always wanted, or my extended family or my whole ethnic community. Like, I don't give a shit about that. Right. I'm here rooting for you, not for you to conform with what other people expect or value. But for you to get in touch with that inner voice that wants to be heard by you, that inner

Kate: 26:10

That that's about one of the greatest golden nuggets voice that will speak back to you, if you say, what would I do next? If it was just up to me? It was just up to me, if they weren't gonna judge me. Or if they would wildly applaud me no matter what I did next. What would I do? Your own self, your spirit will answer you. If it trust that you will listen to it and not squelch it down. Right? Be in conversation with yourself about what this life wants to be, and then summon the guts to take those next steps. we've ever had.

Linda: 26:52

Wow, good

Rhonda: 26:54

Everything. I really wish we could spend the whole day and weekend with you. Yeah, we want to honor your time. And we are coming to the close. But before we sign off, could you tell us what's coming next for you, Julie?

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 27:11

Well, Rhonda, fingers crossed. I am working on developing a mother daughter memoir. So the aforementioned amazing mother of mine, and I and my husband, my partner, Dan and I, we've all co owned a home for 20 years to get into the right school district for our kids. And it's been hell. We've had our moments. We did it for financial and logistical, kid, school district and child rearing reasons. But the mother daughter tension was just like, we have been on a journey my mother and I, and we want to write about it to help others I believe you write memoir to serve others. And we think we have a tale to tell that can help others see. Don't you dare go into this we're gonna buy a house together and all live together under one roof without having regular conversation where everybody has to bring their to the table, right and be able to speak about you know what, let's talk about this isn't quite working for me instead of silence silence silence rage, silence silence silent rage. And so was like right on. That's the book I'm trying to. That's in book proposal mode right now I have to write a proposal. Hope my agent will like it. She'll give me feedback, then hopefully, I'll get it out there and get a book deal for it. And that'll be the next one. Secretly, I'm also hoping they're going to ask me to do a 10th anniversary of how to raise an adult because a lot has changed. I think it could really add some good material.

Kate: 28:45

Absolutely. Mm hmm.

Linda: 28:46

Definitely.

Rhonda: 28:47

Absolutely know that. Yes. Yeah.

Linda: 28:51

Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 28:52

Would you buy that mother daughter book?

Linda: 28:53

Oh, yeah.

Unknown: 28:55

It's really this older generation younger generation. Yes, boss who's trying to like heal a rift with an elderly parent. Like we're all in the sandwich generation, right? There's that dynamic, but it's also we might be the older one trying to work on the relationship if we're in the older set anyway. I think it's just about how humans communicate and show up for each other and work on our own stuff so that we can get remove it from the you know, we don't want to bring our own mess to the situation. We want to try it. Look, I'm a big believer in therapy. I'm big believer in feelings and talking it through my mother's from the North of England where they don't believe in feelings. So that's been, you know, the heart of it. Like she doesn't express how she feels she just tamped it down, and then act out accordingly. And so that's been a hard journey, like, be able to share her feelings in my journey is trusting that my mother can handle my feelings because all my life I was clear that she couldn't so.

Linda: 29:49

yeah, yeah. And I feel I you just yeah,

Rhonda: 29:53

My parents moved in with us five years ago. So I really hear you

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 30:00

There are a lot of upsides, a lot of upsides. But there's some downsides, right?

Rhonda: 30:05

It has challenged me in ways I didn't anticipate.

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 30:09

Yeah, Rhonda, I'm so with you.

Rhonda: 30:11

And the rewards are great. But it's all part of it. It's relationship. It's communication. It's challenge. It's creativity, lots of empathy, lots of understanding.

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 30:23

And I think I felt some guilt because my mother was offering free childcare. Yeah, you know, our, my husband and I are going to be young professionals in Silicon Valley. Have kids, you know, afford the cost of living there. Right. We have this free childcare. And I think that made me as much as I wanted it. I resented I resented or felt guilty that she was providing it because like, it was almost like, how am I ever going to repay this? Yeah. How are we ever going to be equals if she is basically providing the missing variable to make our lives work? Like, are we not adults? You know, are we too reliant on like, now that she's 83 and has a few health issues and a little bit more frail? I'm able to see like, oh, no, no, here's where we're paying. Here's the payback, right? Yeah, yeah, by that we provide that. Like, you can see the dance, you can see, you know, how there is this complete interconnectedness into relationship. But I've had to come to terms with the fact that sometimes I was grumpy and mean, because I felt inadequate. Because she was doing so much for us.

Rhonda: 31:29

We can't wait to read that. Yes.

Linda: 31:32

Yeah. I can't come soon enough. Really. So so we're anxiously awaiting for that and

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 31:37

Bring me back! Can I come back on the show? When that comes?

Linda: 31:39

Yes. Yeah, that would be amazing. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Awesome.

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 31:44

So here, I am hoping it comes out. It's not even a book yet.

Linda: 31:49

We're saying...we know it is. Yeah, absolutely. There is no doubt. Yes. Thank you so much, Julie, for joining us today. Thank you for your heart, your wisdom, and your just human, raw, beautiful words of wisdom. I mean, just you're just incredible to talk with! You fill our souls. So thank you. It's just beautiful.

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 32:11

Well, Linda, Kate and Rhonda - thank you and Cathy, your producer. The last thing I want to say is your listeners have been with us for a number of minutes. And I want to invite every listener still with us to ask yourself what came up for you as we talked? Those are clues from your own spirit or soul or mind or gut that that mattered to you. You know, be curious, whatever came up for you in response to this conversation is valid. Be curious about it, take it forward. Understand it.

Rhonda: 32:40

Thank you for that. What an invitation. And I'm guessing also that our listeners are not going to want to stop hearing from Julie, so we'd like you to be aware that you can get more Julie at her website. Julielythcotthaims.com She is on all the socials so you can sign up to be part of her blog community Julie's pod which is an awesome gift in your inbox. I love that you know Facebook and Instagram so check her out she's not going anywhere. And of course, YOUR TURN: How to Be an Adult is the most recent book right?

Julie Lythcott-Haims: 33:17

That's right just out in paperback so you get a format but now more affordable and paperback so yeah, excellent. Excellent.

Kate: 33:24

Well, special thanks also to our talented producer who was cackling behind the scenes there -that was Cathy Carswell who loved every minute. I wish we got to put a camera on her at some point because she's just embodying her "Yes" when she agrees with something.

Linda: 33:38

she's loved this as well and she she makes this magic happen for us. So is left for me to say go forth. Be brave, live well and do good because it's Act 2:

All: 33:48

You're On!

Kate: Act 2: 33:50

You're On was brought to you by Act 2 Share our Stage.

Linda: 33:53

You can find us at a2yo.com and also on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Please listen and subscribe wherever you find your podcasts. You can support us using Patreon. Thanks for listening