Getting Your Ducks in a Row with Nancy Bagwell

Rhonda: Welcome to Act 2: 0:00

You're On. Join Us Weekly at our studio roundtable. As Rhonda

Kate: 0:05

and Kate invite spectacular guests to weigh in on staying vibrant and healthy.

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Launch your next great app with authenticity and purpose

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Summon your courage superstar and step into the limelight. So grab a coffee

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or a martini

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and let's set the stage for a grand entrance. It's Act Two.

Act 2 Share Our Stage: 0:23

You're on. Greetings friends. I am Rhonda Garvin Conway and I'm here today with my co host,

Kate: 0:31

Kate Leavey. Hello, everyone and we are joined by our talented producer behind the scenes Cathy Carswell

Rhonda: 0:38

We're so happy Cathy's here and we're so excited to talk about today's topic with our special guest on act two you're on. So here's what it's all about friends. Today we're going to discuss all kinds of subjects related to our next great act but what gets in your way of living it out? How do you fulfill your dreams and your visions for what you want for yourself or your business or your creative work? What gets in the way is it sometimes actually Stuff and Clutter, disorganization a lack of systems that prevent you from realizing your dream. If this is something you experienced, you're going to really enjoy our conversation with our guest, Nancy Bagwell, a dear friend of mine and also a professional organizer and owner of ducks in a row professional organizing services in Huntsville, Alabama. Nancy studied Family and Child Development at Auburn University and for as long as she can remember, she has found pleasure, creating order out of chaos. As the child of an army officer and the wife of a pastor. Nancy changed homes many times, thus providing her with an abundance of opportunities to refine packing, unpacking and organizing skills. Now Nancy helps residents of North Alabama declutter their homes and regain their control with guidance and compassion. She listens to her clients struggles and guides them through the organizing process in a way that respects both them and their belongings. The result is a space where the occupants can not only relax, but thrive. Nancy, we are thrilled to invite you into our conversation today. Welcome to act two, you're on.

Nancy Bagwell: 2:23

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Rhonda: 2:26

How's everything in Alabama today?

Nancy Bagwell: 2:29

It's gorgeous, beautiful sunshine, just gorgeous.

Rhonda: 2:32

And that makes us all feel better when the sun is shining. And hopefully when folks tune into this, they'll have a beautiful summer day. And there'll be feeling optimistic about everything. So tell us how do we do better at this thing called organization? We kind of touched on in your bio, what brought you to that, but tell us a little bit more about why you decided to open your own business for organizing?

Unknown: 2:58

Great question. You know, Rhonda, for years, I had people telling me I should do it professionally, just for fun. I would help people, friends of mine with their closets at previous jobs. I was organizing desks, spaces, and storage spaces. And I just kept having people say, you know, you really ought to do this, you know, for living. And of course I poo-pooed all that. Because why would I do something like that? That's crazy. But it kept coming back to me. And I kept feeling a nudge over and over. And as my daughter got closer and closer to graduating from high school, I was hearing this even more

sort of a: 3:35

What are you going to do once she's not home? What are you going to do to fill your time and consequently, the timing kind of came together? Just right. My husband was retiring from his career or at least making his next step going from full time ministry to what is now chaplaincy with a hospice in the local area. And so he was changing, our daughter was getting ready to change, and we were all just doing something different at the same time. So, I finally decided to listen more to that nudging, that voice that was saying, you know, "you really ought to do this," started exploring it more, started getting some training, educating myself more about what exactly - what it takes because it's not something I'd ever thought of really.

Nancy Bagwell: 4:18

And I have to tell you, I was afraid to do it. So goods. I also just love the name of your company, Ducks in a And the main reason I was hesitant to get started was because of the TV show - Hoarders. I don't know if you've ever seen it. There's hoarders, there's Hoarders Buried Alive. There's a number of shows like this on television, where they go into very extreme situations and try to help them declutter and organize. And that really gave me pause until my husband wisely said to me one evening, you know, you don't have to take any client you don't feel equipped to handle. This would be your business. You make the rules. I thought, Wow. That was kind of liberating, too. Just to hear that someone helping me claim my power in a new situation. So ultimately, I did. I went into business during my daughter's senior year, her freshman, excuse me, her senior year of high school. I thought things would take off slowly and was very surprised that it took off very quickly. And I was very, very busy her senior year, and I had to be careful not to miss the important events that went on that year. So it really was just a persistent purging from friends and kind of a voice from God saying, you know, I made you weird for a reason. And I think you have to be just a little bit weird to enjoy this kind of work. So you know, it's well, what's what makes you weird also makes you wonderful. Row. Love it. And and here is my question, why are so many homes filled with clutter? I'm winking, just asking for a friend.

Rhonda: 5:59

Not my home.

Kate: 6:02

What are some of the biggest things that get in the way of people being organized?

Nancy: 6:07

That's a great question, to you all are good. There are lots of reasons people call me. Obviously, transitions in life create clutter in disorder. Moving from home to home, all of a sudden, things are in disarray. Often a change in family members, somebody died - and you now have things to part with or to make decisions about, sometimes it's adding a new family member or adoption, or a birth, where you're bringing in all kinds of new accessories to support that new life that creates chaos. Sometimes it's health issues, and people just cannot stay on top of all the things that are in their world. But I think we're also seeing a relatively new phenomenon. And I say relatively new, because I think it's really been in the last 20 to 30 years of it being - I don't wanna say epidemic, but pretty typical, for the average American home - to average middle class, American home, to be filled with clutter. And I've been studying up on that. And it's really very interesting part of it has to do with our ability to acquire things more easily than we could in the past. You know, what you think back to our great grandparents, and they might have only had a few treasured possessions, things were not as easy to come by shopping was more of a challenge. Today, click, click, click with our thumbs, and it can be delivered to your home within 24 to 48 hours. It's much easier now, despite inflation, we have a lot more disposable income, that we can purchase things for ourselves. And I think these things coupled together makes us a real consumer-driven society. And I don't want to I don't want to step on the toes of people who sell things for a living. But I think accumulating possessions has almost become entertainment. Yes. So while shopping for things for your home or yourself or your children is necessary. It has become something people do in their free time. Because they can, because it's easy, because they want to show their love for their family members. And so it's not just out of need. Now the best side of this is, while we have all these gift-giving occasions, birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas, even back to school, I mean, there are all these opportunities to acquire and bring things into the house. We don't have any set system for when things go away. We don't have national holidays, to remove the unneeded things from our lives, but things keep coming in. So even if you weren't even - if you weren't just shopping for things you need on a limited basis, even if you weren't doing the shopping for entertainment, there are still things that come in regularly. And there's just not unless you design it for yourself, there's not really an out. There's not an out ramp and off-ramp for this highway. And so things keep coming in and coming in and coming in. And your family changes and evolves and grows and takes on new interests and the children age and mature and things don't go out. And so I think that is a lot of it. And then - so you have that scenario. And then you

add in: 9:35

now there's a health crisis, now there's a death in the family, now my schedule is so busy with work because people today are so busy with work that I just don't have the time to get this under control.

Kate: 9:48

That is so interesting. And I have to say, organization is of interest to me. And I feel like I've read about it. I visit The Container Store - not as much as I used to. And that's actually a topic for later in our conversation to about - you know, you can't just keep going and buying organizers and keep shoving your stuff in there, you have to edit what you have. But I think that that is such a compassionate understanding in such a succinct explanation. I've never really thought about many of the things that you just said and I it is getting to be a chronic problem.

Rhonda: 10:18

I know - you just blew my mind when you said that - that culturally, it sounds like we have this system of consume - take in - consume take in, but where's the system to move forward to offer our things up? It's not built in, in a structured way, the way we honor it with holidays and other rituals. That blew my mind. Yeah....So, what do we do?

Nancy Bagwell: 10:46

I think recognition is part of it, you know, like I'm sure other speakers on your podcast have talked about in their specialties. Recognition is key. And I think people are recognizing the problem. Certainly the people that call me have recognized there's a

problem: 11:02

I'm at my wit's end, I just, I just need help, it's more than I can do. But recognizing that, on some level, there has been overconsumption. And if I want to make a comparison to food, and eating, they're sort of similar. It's about learning to say, I've had enough, it's learning to say I am full, is learning to say I can't fit anymore. If you think it was in food, obviously, you're thinking of your body, and what can your stomach hold. But when you think of your home, it's very similar. my dresser drawer is full. But I'm still buying things and putting it in it. My office is full, but I'm still purchasing things to put in it. My children's play room is full. There's no more room. And really now it's become uncomfortable. I don't like the way I feel. I don't like the way I look. And it's because of that lack of boundary of saying, Okay, we're done. This is how much we can do. We can't We can't handle anymore. It's just not healthy. It's not comfortable. So recognition is part of it. And this is where I come in. Also, when people call exam desperate, what do I do? How do we fix this? So we start with the recognition that there is a problem. And I'd like to find out how we got there just someone have a chronic problem with with clutter, have they always been a clutter or something happened recently, that has just thrown things off. And that's often the case, too, like I said, a change, a change in a family some kind of a crisis that sets something off. For people who've always had a problem, we need to start at the beginning and really teach some new skills. For people who are just had a crisis, it's really just getting them back in control, so that they can resume how they would normally function. The bulk of the time that I spend with people is really in calling their belongings. I don't like to say purging, because it just sounds like you're sick. That's calling their belongings, it's not just about getting rid of is deciding what is most important to you. What is not. And to do that I think you really have to take the time, or I have to take the time with my clients to say, Let's pause and reflect for a minute. What do you really want your life to look like? I want you to close your eyes and picture going into your home at the end of the day. What does it look like? How does it feel? What do you spend your free time doing in this imaginary wonderful life that you want to have for yourself? Do you garden on the weekends? Do you? Do you like to make tea and sip tea with your girlfriend on Sunday afternoons? Do you like to read books? How do you how do you spend your time in this perfect place? What do you want for your future? Sort of like what you're getting to what is your next step? What do you want to be creating? And then once they have a better vision of that it's able to translate into their space. So then it's a matter of going space by space in their home and saying, Okay, do the things here support that vision? Well, this stack of papers in the corner, are they important for creating who you want to be next? Maybe they are? Maybe it's documents that you're working on for some new certification, but maybe it's just old bills from three years ago. What about the things in your closet? Do they represent who you were 10 years ago? Do they represent you now? Do they present you in a way that you want to be seen going forward? It's okay to let things go when they're done serving you. That doesn't mean there was anything wrong with them in the first place. They might be in great shape now on can help someone else. But is it supporting your vision for your life going forward? And then once we've gone through it Anything which is time consuming, it's a lot of decision making. How important is this to me? Does it help? Does it hurt? Who could benefit from this more than me? Should I donate it? Should I sell it? Does it need to just go to the trash? Once we've gotten down to what's really essential for supporting their life going forward, then I can really create the magic of organizing things, and setting up the systems in their homes, so that they can be more efficient in their efforts at home, that they don't waste time looking for things, they don't spend extra money replacing things because they can't find it in the piles. I know it's there, but I can't find it. And so I can set up the systems that they can manage, so that when they come home, they can get what they need. When they're done with it, they can put it back. It's not that you don't create messes, because your life is messy, you have kids, you do things that you have to get stuff out and spread them on the floor and on the table. That's, that's fine. That's, that's what we want. The point is that you can find it when you need it, that you can put it away when you're done, and that all these things help support you creating who you want to be and who you want your family to be.

Rhonda: 16:11

That's fascinating. I'm curious about the system piece, because I feel like systems are what makes the universe work, right? Our body has a system nature as a system, were part of that system, all of our businesses, our schools have systems and then our homes, we sort of adopt maybe the system that was modeled for us, or we grew up with a system that we didn't like, so we do the exact opposite of it. It's all this evolution of systems. So do you when you're at that step in your process of organizing? Do you say now? This is the system I'm recommending? Does your client have buy in in creating the system? Or do you just say this is how to do it?

Nancy Bagwell: 16:59

Oh, clients always have the most influence? I will guide them. I will make suggestions. But every decision from the very beginning is theirs. From do we keep this or not? To - how do we set this up to work in the future. So it's not as simple as this is how you do it. I I know that there are books out there that say this is how you fold and this is how you hang. This is where things go. And it's great. And it's helpful it is. But every family is different. Everybody operates differently. And so I have to learn while working with my clients. How do they operate as a family? How do they operate within their home? How do they use their space, and then help them to use unused spaces better, and also create some new habits for how they just come and go within their home. So for example, if one of the problems is paper clutter, mail comes in, and piles on the kitchen counter, because doesn't everybody pile stuff on their kitchen counter. It's just a drop zone, right? Everything comes in lands. We don't want that to keep happening. So we've set up a place where they pay bills. And all of the new bills go to this one particular place. That's the only place they go. But even before that, you kind of back it up and say Okay, so where which door do you come in when you bring in the mail, front door, side door garage, okay, whatever door you come in, we need to set up a recycling bin and maybe a shredder, and you stop at the door. And everything that's junk mail that's not sensitive, go straight to recycling, and everything that is sensitive, but you don't need goes straight to the shredder. And even the important things, take off the outer envelopes, get rid of them right there so that the only thing that comes in the door is important. And then when you come in now here's the new the other part of the new habit, you have to walk it straight to where that bill is going to be paid. Now, if you can pay it right then great, but if not, it lands, it lands in one place. And only one place. We're all

Rhonda: 19:05

there when you're in a studio right now.

Kate: 19:07

So this is clearly, this is a common thread.

Nancy Bagwell: 19:11

If you have stopped it? Yeah, you've stopped him from ever coming in. Because again, those things that you're about to walk into your house, they're not supporting your vision for your life. That junk mail doesn't support it. The the unwanted sensitive information stuff that you need to shred doesn't help you be who you want to be. So why are you even letting it into your home, thus letting it into your life? Again, it's a boundary, nothing comes in, that doesn't support who I want to be.

Rhonda: 19:45

And that line of questioning empowers you to kind of get into a rational space versus like the habitual thing that this is just what I've always done which is sort of a physical place, or the emotional one of like a little bit maybe I should hold on to it because I feel like maybe and you go back and forth emotionally about the thing. But here you just get right in touch with your rational, reasonable brain of does this serve the vision of the life I want to create? No. Okay, I don't need it.

Kate: 20:18

I'm swearing a bow right now I'm going to take a shredder to my mudroom. I love that. And the mail irritates me endlessly. And this is...I can put this one right to use. So here's the question, Nancy. Yes. Why can't we do this on our own? What? What is preventing people...me from getting more organized from really delving into this, I don't know, this clutter and the overwhelm.

Nancy Bagwell: 20:50

There are lots of things and, you know, often I'll be greeted, when I first go see a client, they'll greet me at the door and say, I'm so embarrassed, I almost don't want you to come in gosh, you know, breaks my heart because they don't realize that so many people face this. Like I said before, some people really have physical limitations, I have a lot of clients who just are not well, it's overwhelming, their bodies can't handle it, they need someone to come in and simplify things for them. That's one category people. I'd say most people honestly just have never been taught. Some of the skills have never been educated on ways to maintain their home and their possessions, either because their parents are similar in their disorder. Or, honestly, I think a lot of things have changed. Our parents didn't deal with a number of the things that we do. Electronics were not an issue. When they were raising us, they just weren't. How are parents supposed to manage that there's just a lot of this different. And so I think that is one of the best reasons. And then, of course, like I mentioned before, people are so, so busy. So to carve out the time to get things under control is a major investment, once it's under control, and new skills have been learned. Maintenance is not so difficult. And there'll be surprised people are surprised to how quickly they can adopt new things that actually buys them time. Because they're not wasting their busy lives, hunting for something looking for the miss the matching shoe, trying to find the important bill that was due last week and really has to get paid today, even though they don't have the time now. And it feels like I don't have time to even get this under control. It helps them in the end when they do.

Rhonda: 22:47

I feel like we're touching - we could probably have a whole other conversation about this subject, because motivation plays into the process. But I wanted to make sure we had a little bit of time to talk about the relationship of our stuff, consumption clutter, to money into our pocket books.

Kate: 23:07

That's exactly where I wanted to go as well. Yeah,

Rhonda: 23:10

...because you have some really interesting thinking about this, that I think our audience will love hearing about. So talk to us about what what that all equates to. And if you were thinking about like, what's going to motivate you to take care of the stuff,

Kate: 23:25

this is so good,

Nancy Bagwell: 23:26

Right? You know, sometimes I think people are hesitant to hire an organizer because they think oh, my goodness, is it's going to cost a fortune. How am I ever going to be able to afford to do this. It's just too much. It costs too much to hire someone to get help. Although we hire people to help us with things all the time, you hire mechanics, we hire doctors, we hire plumbers, but there's something personal, about your home. And in granted. The work I do is very intimate work. I'm handling, not just their things, but really their emotions. It's very intimate. So I think that is part of the hesitation on hiring somebody but people also who have hired me and other professional organizers come to see that actually, it's a money saving endeavor. Because the amount of money that is spent to maintain the things you have is enormous. The amount of money that is spent to replace items that you have, because you can't find them. And when you finally get organized, you realize you have 17 pairs of scissors. And it's not. You know, it's not that you need 17 It's just that every time you need when you can't find it, you go buy another one. Or you need a black skirt for an event and you know it's in there somewhere, but it's going to take more time to dig through and find it than it is to go buy a new one. And so you buy another one and another one and another one that adds up. I had one client, lovely family and they just couldn't get In a laundry system under control. And so his solution rather than to get the laundry under control, or in his feelings of pester his wife about her doing it, I get pause there - was he would go out and he'd he'd go out every week and buy new socks and underwear every week, every week, they were they were never washed. But that was his solution, he would just bring in more to make it work, bring in more, and add it to the clock to add it to the pile, add it to the floor, that really adds up when you think about how much he's just paid and socks and underwear. And then really on a larger picture, have you noticed how many self storage units are being built across the country? Wow, I don't know how it is where you are. But here it is. Wild,

Kate: 25:48

we're seeing that too

Nancy Bagwell: 25:48

They are popping up everywhere. And people don't just have one storage unit, they have multiple storage units, because their homes that are very, very full, can't handle anymore. So what they're spending for rent of storage units is amazing. And that money could be spent differently. Like, perhaps to support that vision of the life you want. Maybe to take classes to become somebody new to take on a new career to to enroll your kids in camp. I mean, there's so many different things. When you think about when you look around your home. And you see lots of things when you see lots of clutter, all that clutter used to be money at clutter, that clutter was cash. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy things, again, it's not totally anti consumer. But in being mindful of what you bring in, you can save that money to direct it towards what really fulfills you. So there is a real economic advantage to getting organized. Plus, there's just the right up front. If you're going through your home and getting rid of things, you can sell a lot of things and make some money. There are people who have paid my fees based on what they sold. I had one client a couple years ago and just in loose change in random bills we found around the house while decluttering she found over $600

Rhonda: 27:16

Wow, yeah, Nancy, yeah,

Kate: 27:18

Nancy, we are going to have to have you come back because I feel like we're just scratching the surface. And I have so many personal questions. And it would be so interesting to hear from your perspective. What is it about this rampant consumerism that are people getting this like thrill of buying, and then there's remorse and then there's the overwhelm. And I just think that there's endless things that we we need to learn from you and consider so we're gonna have to have a part two,

Nancy Bagwell: 27:47

I would love that. And I'm still figuring it out, too. You know, you know, the more you do anything, the more you learn. And I think a lot of it comes down to immediate versus delayed gratification. That sweater so pretty. And it would look so good on me and it's on sale. I'm just going to buy it because it makes me happy right now. And it's a goodbye. It's a good bargain, it does look good on you that that's not the problem. But you have now just sacrifice whatever that sale price was for maybe putting that same money towards what your bigger goal is, you know, again, if you're trying to create the vision of what your life is, and try you know, that vision of when you come home, what do you do on your weekends, your free time? Would that same money have been better spent working towards that? Which would mean putting off the I want it right now. For the bigger thing? I don't know I think there's just something to that I need to explore that some

Kate: 28:43

...and so worthy of further conversation because I more think one of the greatest lessons I had as a as a youth was I worked and I paid for a lot of my clothing and I can remember putting a sweater away on lay a way at Benetton and it took me forever to afford that sweater. And I wear that thing for years and years and I was so proud of myself for waiting for I had to because I was gonna buy it and until moths got to it sadly enough, but it taught me a lot about delaying gratification and the satisfaction when I finally afforded that expensive sweater. And it it that was a great life lesson. I don't know that I recognized that at the time. I'm sure my parents did. Just such compassionate information that you're giving us today. Invaluable. So I thank you so much for this conversation. And I've already learned a few things that I will already employ in my life.

Rhonda: 29:38

I love that story. Kate because when was the last time I actually had a conversation with someone they mentioned layaway. Yeah. And that's to Nancy's point. That feels like that does not happen today. Maybe others are doing it but honestly, I haven't heard that in a long time. Alright, so much wisdom, but we're going to give you the opportunity to really put it out there Nancy, this is is the moment of our program where we invite you to, to share that one piece of wisdom, your golden nugget that you could offer our listening audience about what it is you do or your own journey as an entrepreneur, what would you like to share that might help us all, live and launch our next great act?

Nancy Bagwell: 30:19

I want to invite people to dream a little bit, especially in the last couple of years, I think things have just been so difficult. And maybe that's part of where this extra consumerism was coming for treating our pain. You know, maybe we're self medicating with the things we afford ourselves that that immediate gratification, but I want to invite people to really dream about what they want. And I know, that says, That's easier said than done. It's hard to sometimes know, what do we want to do? What do we want to do next? But even if it's not something big, if it's just a day to day? How do I want my everyday life to look, I want to invite people to dream about that and fantasize about that. If they need to make a vision board with pictures of it, do that, whatever, put something on paper that helps them clarify what is it they really want, and then remove the obstacles, whether it's the physical things in their home, whether it is things that they sign up to do that they don't have time for, you know, saying no to some things can be very liberating. So once you have that vision, so then let's Let's clear out what's standing in the way. And then the things that are left are the things that you most value, the things that will support you put them to work, give them a home, tell them where they belong, this is what they're going to do. So that you can actually have that life now rather than just dreaming about it for all eternity.

Kate: 31:46

Beautifully said such wisdom I Nancy have the regrettable task of being the timekeeper. Which means we're almost at the end of our time together. But before we go, Can we ask you what comes next for you?

Nancy Bagwell: 32:00

What does?That's a really good question. And I've been thinking about that a lot since Rhonda brought that up the other day. And I have been thinking about it some recently because this is a physically demanding job. I am that girl that moves furniture single handedly across the room because it works better there. I do a lot of carrying heavy boxes up and down stairs, men and out of attics. It's hard. It's hard on my body. I know I can't physically do this until I'm elderly. So there will be something different, but I'm not altogether sure what that's going to be. And again, so I'm starting to listen for that little voice that nudged me before. And is there a little voice there? I've heard a whisper that might be directing me towards speaking at women's retreats nice, which terrifies me. And usually it's the things that terrify me. That tells me it's not my idea and I need to explore it. Doggone it. I hate that. I hate that. And yet I really think it's a God thing with me. Because, you know, I'm asking for the guidance myself with what is next and help point me in the right way. And I've always viewed my clients as being chosen and sent to me for a reason I think of this as kind of a ministry. And it really feels that way. And so when I asked for that clarification from God like okay, what is it you want me to do? Who is it you want me to see? What is it you want me to accomplish when I start hearing things that are so not me? So out of character for me. So out of my comfort zone that I'm like, got it, he's done it again, and he's gonna make me do something scary, which is what this was to. Maybe it's maybe it's speaking at women's retreats. I'm not sure that's just the first little voice I've heard.

Kate: 34:02

Oh, can I give you a big thumbs up for that you speak beautifully and what an amazing ministry you have that helps change the quality of people's lives every single day. That's a - what a magnificent gift. So you speak beautifully artfully. So boy, I hope I get to go to that conference and get to hear you speak further.

Rhonda: 34:25

Nancy you are a gift and when I thought she's going to say teacher, and I can see you providing so much guidance and wisdom to the masses. So I hear that whisper my friend

Kate: 34:39

and mightbe a roar.

Rhonda: 34:41

This might Yes. I think today was maybe the beginning, maybe the beginning. We're so grateful you came on and use your voice to share your experience. And tell us about the work you do and how to help us all be a little bit better at what we're doing in this stage of our world in an Our lives. Thank you, Nancy. You're amazing.

Nancy Bagwell: 35:04

Well, this has been a real pleasure.

Rhonda: 35:07

Thank you friends. If you're interested in learning more about what Nancy does, you can go to WW.ducks in a row.hfv.com. You'll find her website there with all her information.

Kate: 35:24

I'll be I'll be tuning in there shortly myself. Special things to the talent skill production of our great producer Cathy Carswell.

Rhonda: 35:35

We love her. And we love Nancy, thanks again for being here. It's left for me to say go forth. Be brave, live well and do good because it's act two you're on.

Kate: 35:47

Act Two You're On was brought to you by act 2 Share our stage.a2 you can find us at a2yo.com and also on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Rhonda: 35:56

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Kate: 36:05

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Rhonda: 36:05

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Kate: 36:16

so we can keep providing resources for the doers and dreamers to find connection, purpose and the skills needed to create a sustainable, fulfilling life to better serve the world. And also so we can buy more coffee.

Rhonda: 36:28

Oh Kate, thanks for listening everyone.