In one of our most compelling podcasts ever, in a conversation chockablock full of hard truths on mental health challenges faced by our armed forces, their families as well as our civilian population, you’ll meet one of our nation’s most decorated leaders and a compassionate, purpose-driven change maker, Brigadier General Jack Hammond.
Do you have a challenging relationship with change? Maybe, you view change as an opportunity for growth. Or, has life forced change out of the challenge in the most unexpected ways? Today we're going to discuss how one organization addresses the profound effects of military service on veterans, servicemembers, and their families. Not only can their unique experiences present a change in their physical health, but often this population faces issues such as post-traumatic stress, traumatic brain injury, anxiety, depression, co-occurring substance use disorder, and family relationship challenges. Today's guest is United States Army Brigadier General retired Jack Hammond. General Hammond is here to help us all learn about the groundbreaking work being done at home base to help heal the trauma.
Brigadier General Jack Hammond is a retired US Army General Officer and veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan. General Hammond served as the chief executive for Home Base, an innovative partnership between the Boston Red Sox and the Massachusetts General Hospital. It operates the nation's premier center of excellence for the mental health and brain injuries that affect our veterans and their families. General Hammond is a proven combat leader and has led strategic and tactical formations of the US and allied forces in combat and counterterrorism operations in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
General Hammond has advised President Obama's commission on military compensation and retirement monetization and presented at his White House veterans and military family mental health conference. He later served as a member of President George W. Bush's health and Task Force and his veteran wellness Alliance. In addition, Hammond served on Secretary Bob MacDonald's My VA Advisory Committee, Governor Mitt Romney's Homeland Security Advisory Council, and Governor Charlie Baker's health care transition team and veteran advisory council General Hammond's military awards and decorations include: the Distinguished Service Medal, the Legion of Merit medal for combat service, the Bronze Star Medal, Army Commendation Medal for valor to Valorous Unit awards, a combat action band, General Hammond earned a bachelor's from the University of Massachusetts, a master's from Boston University and completed a national security fellowship at Harvard University.
“What we do is we have this episodic point of care, where we basically allow the person to hit the pause button on life and focus for two weeks to get better. ...And so that's what we've done in working through with a group of people to build this out was really leveraging the collective intellect of a broader group - cause one person can have a great idea - but a group of people working on a challenge can come up with a fantastic solution.”
“Fortune does favor the bold as people look to that next transition in their life. It takes courage because the status quo is comfortable. When you make a change, when you make big changes, it's uncomfortable. And that's deeply rooted in our lizard brains; in our amygdala, change is uncertain and uncertainly provokes fear and triggers base responses to avoid it. You have to fight through that. When you believe there's something you want to do, you've got to summon the courage - and build that courage - to move forward with and pursue your dreams.”
Find out more about Home Base at
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Greetings friends. I am Rhonda Garvin Conaway and I am joined by our talented producer Cathy Carswell; today, we are missing our dear co-host, Kate Leavey. She is unfortunately not with us for this episode due to COVID. And we're thinking of her and wishing her the very best recovery and anyone out there that might be battling any health issues or COVID. Today, we wish you well. But as we move forward in today's episode, I would like to invite you to think about this question. Do you feel challenged when it comes to facing change? Do you view it as an opportunity for growth? Or did your life experience that brought about change for you come about because of pain in the most unexpected ways? In our adult lives, we all face transition and change on a small and grand scale. Each of us approaches these experiences differently. Today we're going to discuss how one organization is addressing the profound effects that military service has on veterans, servicemembers and their families. Not only can their unique experiences present a change in their physical health, but often this population faces issues such as post-traumatic stress, traumatic brain injury, anxiety, depression, co-occurring substance use disorder, and family relationship challenges. Today's guest is United States Army Brigadier General retired Jack Hammond. General Hammond is here to help us all learn about the groundbreaking work being done at home base to help heal the trauma. So many experience. I'd love for all of you to learn a little bit about this extraordinary human. Brigadier General Jack Hammond is a retired US Army General Officer and veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan. General Hammond served as the chief executive for Home Base, which is an innovative partnership between the Boston Red Sox and the Massachusetts General Hospital and operates the nation's premier center of excellence for the mental health and brain injuries that affect our veterans and their families. General Hammond is a proven combat leader and has led strategic and tactical formations of US and allied forces in combat and counterterrorism operations in both Iraq and Afghanistan. General Hammond has advised President Obama's commission on military compensation and retirement monetization and presented at his White House veterans and military family mental health conference. He later served as a member of President George W. Bush's health and Task Force and his veteran wellness Alliance. In addition, Hammond served on Secretary Bob MacDonald's My VA Advisory Committee, Governor Mitt Romney's Homeland Security Advisory Council and Governor Charlie Baker's health care transition team, and veteran advisory council General Hammond's military awards and decorations include: the Distinguished Service Medal, the Legion of Merit medal for combat service, the Bronze Star Medal, Army Commendation Medal for valor to Valorous Unit awards, a combat action band, General Hammond earned a bachelor's from the University of Massachusetts, a master's from Boston University and completed a national security fellowship at Harvard University. General Hammond it is a true honor to welcome you to the Act 2 You're On studio today. Welcome.General Hammond:
It's an honor and privilege to speak with you today, Rhonda,Rhonda:
Our podcast studio and in many of our episodes, we talk about transition, we talk about change and the opportunities that come with it. And it is no doubt that what Home Base is doing is an area of expertise. I'd love for you to just jump into sharing what is the mission of Home Base? And how is it that this National Center for Excellence is changing and saving lives?General Hammond:
Sure. And the short answer is Home Base has really one big mission, and it's to heal the invisible wounds of war. And those effect not only our warriors, our active duty service members, our veterans but also our military family members. As you well know, when one warrior deploys more warrior warriors at home, worrying about their service member while they're deployed, and it does effect them as well. So the veterans in the active duty service members aren't the only ones that are impacted by war. It's the families they leave behind as well. Home Base was designed for the intended purpose of leveraging the incredible resources of Mass General Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Spaulding Rehab, Mass Pioneer Institute, Mass General Brigham system, all of these incredible medical resources were brought to bear with the goal of developing new and innovative solutions to problems that go back to Biblical times that have never had solutions. And when you look at it and you take a step back and you realize the injuries that our warriors sustained on the battlefields today, are not dissimilar to the ones they felt in the incurred during the Roman gladiator times, that traumatic brain injury is nothing more than a concussive smashed through your head. And as time evolved in technology improved, that would include the concussive event of an explosion, going back to the invention of gunpowder, but traumatic c stress is an issue that goes back to the first time somebody got hacked with a broadsword or clubbed with a, you know, club, and somebody witnessed this, right. And so trauma is as old as time. And these type of injuries are as old as time and warfare. But it really wasn't until the late 1980s, that PTSD got a clinical diagnosis as an injury that needed and required clinical treatment. They had many names for it, they called it battle fatigue, soldier's heart, all these fancy little euphemisms, but they had no way of dealing with it. And they didn't really have sound treatments available. When you look at traumatic brain injury, that goes back to the beginning of time, and we really didn't even look at that s an injury on a battlefield sense, with any expertise and putting any type of resources behind solving it until probably the mid 2007-8 timeframe, modern time solutions to ancient old challenges. And a lot of this was brought on by the fact that we had an epidemic of veteran and soldier suicide taking place. And it was on the rise and continues to this day, where we lose roughly 20 veterans a day and at least one active serving member of the military to suicide. It's a heartbreaking statistic. I don't know, anybody that served in either Iraq or Afghanistan, that doesn't know several people that have taken their own lives. There's no one that there's no other workforce that can can make a claim like that, because it's so wild. And it's beyond comprehension for most people to say, I know multiple people that have taken their lives from job-related actions. And so Home Base has spent the past decade developing very creative and innovative solutions to very complex injuries. And each day, we treat and care for the most injured veterans and warriors in the country. And episodically, we see the most injured military family members in the country. And we're able to deliver life changing care, and help them provide providing them the tools, providing them the resources to reclaim the lives they once had. And so that's what we do.Rhonda:
It's extraordinary, and that statistic is incredibly sobering. And I wonder about that model, how comprehensive it is how key that is, to the success of the work that you're doing. Can you speak a little bit about that, what it's like to be part of this massive collaboration from Mass General Hospital to the Boston Red Sox, and why you think it might require all those parties to make what you're doing successful.General Hammond:
In most things in life, you have an inspiration, you have a thought, you have an idea. And this one began by visiting the Walter Reed Army Medical Center, National Center of Excellence that they have down in Bethesda where we saw a very good program that they launched. And it's a four-week intensive political program, primarily diagnostic in nature, that focuses on brain injury. And then it also addresses some mental health challenges. But as we looked at it, we knew that model would not work in the private sector with our veterans, primarily because it was a four week program in the private sector four weeks is called a leave of absence. And there's such a stigma associated with mental health care. Telling your boss, "I need to take a month off, take a leave of absence" is something that you probably can't walk back. And most people want to keep their privacy private. And so two weeks, you have vacation every year. And if you want to be very private, you can make up a story that you're going fishing for two weeks, you can say you're going to the beach - doesn't really matter. Because most people don't care. You told me about vacation, they're happy for you, but they're not that excited. And you can say you're going up to New Hampshire for two weeks, and nobody cares. And so you go get the care you need. And then you come back and you know, much better in much better shape, far more healthy. And so as we looked at it, we took what we could from their program, we saw what we'd like but we'd like the idea of compression. Because in today's fast-moving world, many people just don't have the time to spend 15 weeks in care. Life's too short. Too many stressors, too many pressures, especially for younger warriors that are just starting out with family. It's pretty hard to say, "Hey, I've got to leave my job once a week, for a day, because there's no easy way to travel around Boston." If you have a medical appointment in Boston, you lose a day of work. And so many of these young men and women don't have sick leave. So they lose a day's pay, and taking a 20% pay cut for three months, four months. On top of telling your employer, I've got to leave every week, I've got to be gone one day, a week, you know, and having to try and maintain some level of privacy. But it usually ends up happening is after three or four visits, people drop out of care, because they start feeling better, they think they've got it, but they're not fully cooked yet. And so they get it's a half measure that works halfway and then down the road, further challenges hit, and then they spiral, and then they get back in bad shape again, and then they have to come back in for more care. And they come in for three or four visits, and then they feel better, and then they stop again. And it has this terrible What we do is we have this episodic point of care, where we cycle. basically allow the person to hit the pause button on life, and focus for two weeks to get better. And if you think about it, if you've ever had physical therapy, where you go once a week, and they do some physical therapy on your elbow, your knee your shoulder, over 10 weeks, five weeks, you feel better, and you kind of come around. But if you were able to go to Gillette Stadium with the Patriots play, and get a hotel room there, and from eight in the morning to eight at night for two solid weeks you work with the sports medicine team, the masseuses, the hydrotherapy people, chances are you'd get better faster, you would get better than once a week for an hour, any kind of treatment. And so that's what we've done in working through with a group of people to build this out was really leveraging the collective intellect of a broader group - cause one person can have a great idea - but a group of people working on a challenge can come up with a fantastic solution.Rhonda:
That is a beautiful description of the work you're doing. And that intensive piece is providing a lot of hope for people. I am wanting to go back to a point you mentioned where you talked about the trauma, and mental health. And I appreciate that you acknowledge it's been around since the beginning of time, since we've been human, we've had trauma, and we have had illness in our brains, just like we have it in all other aspects of who we are as human. I think we're talking about it more since the pandemic, we certainly are seeing it more the statistics are up. Tell me from your perspective in the work that you're doing what you're observing as an active citizen in your community, what is going on with mental health? And how are we addressing it? And how can we do better?General Hammond:
That's a fantastic question. Because right now across corporate America, we are seeing a mass resignation from the workforce, something that we've never seen before. We lost 48 million people made I made a difficult decision in some cases to just quit last year in 2021, quit their jobs, and average 4 million a month people quit with no second job - wasn't like they quit to go someplace else they quit in February 2022, that number rose to 12 million just in that month alone. And based on a lot of material - I've read, a good chunk of this - more than almost 50%, is based on some type of mental health challenges they're facing. And a lot of it has to do with the isolation of two years of a pandemic. It's a beleaguered group of individuals that have tried to hold it together for the past two years, while suddenly having a shifting workforce environment where they went from working in an office every day to working at home. And at the same time, especially young moms, an extra burden fell on them. have left the workforce in record numbers. And so, if you think about it, one of the challenges we see with our warriors, when they leave the battlefields and take the uniform off and become civilians, is that transition from something where they have a very purpose-driven life, one of the most purpose-driven lives possible, where you feel you're saving the free world, which in many ways we do. But everybody who has a purpose driven life, regardless of what it is, if that suddenly is abruptly taken away from them, and they feel that absence of purpose that can be deeply affected, and then all sudden, you get this increased burden to homeschool your children as much as you love them. It's a long haul. And then you've got a lot of extra people in the house. So now you've got multiple people working from home, multiple children trying to do home homeschooling via zoom, and other mediums. There are so many challenges associated with all of this, and then the fact that it just seems like it's never gone away. And so we're living in facing a period of persistent change in volatility, probably for the next 10 to 20 years, we're going to see an enduring form of pandemic that keeps popping up. And we keep seeing that we're in the midst of that again, we're seeing the largest series of external threats, the country has faced since the height of the Cold War, with Russia threatening nuclear war as a result of Ukraine. We can't forget our friends in the Middle East, the terrorists that started all the trouble that begin all of this back in September 11 2001. They haven't gone away; they've just kind of resettled. And so between all of these things, there's a lot of challenges people are facing. And so we've seen nationally a global rise in individual suicide beyond our veterans, and just an extraordinary level of mental health challenges, and t's affecting our workforce and everyday lifeRhonda:
It is so challenging. And I heard in that, like, if isolation is a challenge, then connection is key. If you feel a lack of purpose, then it's more important than ever to connect with yourself and define what is my purpose here? And is it connected just to the work I do? Does that define me? Is that my identity? What has Home Base taught you about what we all need to kind of keep in mind as we are in a period of transition, and reinvention?General Hammond:
Well, number one, you got to stay healthy. Home Base is a partner with the George W. Bush Institute, he has a special program that's for veterans, and we've worked with him since the inception of that. And in one conversation, we talked about what a successful transition looks like. And it begins with good health, mental and physical health. If you've got any injuries on either side, you've got to get those straight, because your health, your overall health, mental and physical, is the bedrock of everything you do moving forward. Because if you do have challenges, and they're unresolved, as you try and become the best version of yourself, it's impossible because something will come up and pull you backwards. And so you've got to focus on getting to the healthiest version of yourself that you can have. As stage one, we look at maintaining a good sense of community is the second leg of the stool, where you have some connective tissue with people, whether it's support groups, religious groups, community groups, family, there's got to be a group of people that you have connections to see you not isolated, right. And then the third one is the purpose driven life. And it doesn't matter what it is, but you have to be able to wake up in the morning and have a reason to get out of bed. And that's one of the challenges we see with the number of But we're also not seeing that with many y folks during this veterans. pandemic time. And going back to the sense of community, one of our best experiences is partnering with one of the organizations at Mass General Hospital called the Benson Henry Institute, the mind body medicine. And what they talk about is the fact that people are mammals. And mammals are pack animals, and they do best with other animals. And people, rats, kangaroos, you name it - they do better when they're together with their family, with their tribe, when you don't have that is when you do your worst. And so we work very closely to try and keep people connected to a tribe, to a family.Rhonda:
I just can't say enough about the book Tribe that Sebastian younger wrote about this very issue. We did a book review about that not too long ago, because it does take us to the place that we all need to be ,which is in community with one another. If we don't have those connections, we lose a part of who we are. We're designed, as you said, as mammals to be together as a pack.General Hammond:
Yeah. And they've got scientific studies that have pushed behind this. Dr. Herbert Benson, who recently passed away, is the father of mind body medicine. And when we start looking at mindfulness, that's an area that I think everybody probably should take a hard look at trying to integrate in their everyday life. That's an Henry program has had a number of programs that have helped women of childbearing age that were having trouble getting pregnant, to be able to unleash some of the stress that may have been holding them back. They've got programs for almost everything on stress reduction, anxiety, reduction, and mindfulness that help you just deal with the stress of everyday life in general. And I would share with you that this is something that's been looked at very closely in the military and to put a fine point on it within our Special Operations community. And by that I mean Navy SEALs, Green Berets, Delta Force members. They have a program now in place called preservation of the force, and it focuses on the different aspects of health with a very specific underpinning for mental health and mindfulness. Just today, I read an article from an Army Ranger group talking about guidance on folks wanting to be the healthiest, strongest possible they can be and what the Army Rangers do to get ready for this significant competition and to be the most resilient people they can be. And of course, cornerstone to that, once again is mindfulness, mindfulness meditation, that type of stuff it because when you can let stress just wash over you and you're able to stay present in the moment, you can function much, much better. And the stress, which can hurt, your body just washes away from you.Rhonda:
These are amazing points to make, whether you're in the armed forces, retired from them or not - and you are standard citizen, and civilian, we can all benefit from these things. Because we're all exposed and experienced stress. It's part of the human experience, I was wondering for you, if you wouldn't mind talking a little bit about your experience, being in the service and then retiring and working in civilian life, and you're still very connected to other veterans and the military. But you went through your own transition, what was that like for you?General Hammond:
I think for most of us, it's a very scary time, regardless of how long you're in, it becomes a lifestyle for you. You know, a lot of folks say you shouldn't identify yourself by your work. But we do because our work is ever present, it's 24 hours a day, in most cases, it becomes all-consuming in far too many ways. And so, in my case, I just finished 31 years of service. So I had been in the military more of my life than I hadn't been. And so as you looked at the prospect of retiring, it's a bit daunting. And for me, personally, someone told me a long time ago that you know, when you are ready, and I had just gotten back from my last deployment overseas, I was on 60 days leave, trying to work through some issues related to my next assignment. And my wife, Colleen, who's been my partner, confidant, and friend, best friend, since, you know, we met in the mid-80s said to me, "You know, how long do you plan on staying?" And I laughed, I said, "You want me to get out." And she laughed again and said that ship sailed a long time ago, because we met, you know, at the five year mark, it was now 31 years. So we'd been together in the military together for more than two and a half decades. As I looked at her quizzically, she said, "What is it that you have left to do in the army that you haven't done that you wanted to do? And what's that job you're dying to have." And after a good Tanqueray and tonic and sitting on the porch, we're there for about 10 minutes, I couldn't think of anything that I hadn't done that I wanted to do with enough energy that I wanted to stay. And it was at that moment, I knew I was ready, because I didn't have any and left things that I needed to focus on. My goal when I when I went on active duty was to become a lieutenant colonel, hopefully deploy someday and serve 20 years. And I'd gone 16 years past that, and a few ranks past that, and a few deployments past that. So I had far exceeded any of my expectations and goals. And I'd come to that reality. And so I was ready for my next chapter. And that's really what it came down to. I was looking for a new challenge. And what I saw ahead of me if I stayed the military was a lot of my old challenges associated with a peacetime army. And I didn't really feel like doing that again. And so I look for new opportunity, I plan on taking a year off, look at my options really get stronger and healthier. I just come back from a year in Afghanistan. And so I was pretty worn out. And about a month and a half later, I was approached with an opportunity to be considered for the leadership position at Home Base. And it really thrilled me because in my short bucket list of things I was considering, I had taught at Boston University for three years as an assistant professor in the Department of Military Science in the mid 90s. I thought about going back to collegiate level academic position. I had done some work with nonprofits, a nonprofit research foundation, associated with that family had worked with a nonprofit called Homes for Our Troops, while I was on active-duty, assisting them speaking with young men and women who were catastrophically injured. And so there was a part of me that wanted to do some of that. And so when I had the opportunity to go back to an academic medical center, work with the Boston Red Sox, and then help veterans, that was a no brainer for me. When the sun shined on that opportunity, I gave it my full effort. About 25 retired admirals and generals were in competition with me for this I can tell you the six month process was fairly grueling, but I loved it. It gave me an opportunity to spend six months trying to figure out what could I - what would I do if I had the opportunity. And as we went through each round of interviews, it got a little more challenging, and it got me - it got me prepared to make that move into the civilian world, which I deeply appreciate it and at the end, I was fortunate enough to have the honor to be asked to take the helm and lead this fantastic organization of amazing people.Rhonda:
And we're so grateful that you are at the helm. What an incredible story. It's incredible the world work you've done at home base. It's incredible how you've made the transition. And I appreciate you shedding a little light that it's not a straight line, that it took reflection. It took hard work, bouncing that off of your partner and your people. And really asking yourself the tough questions about where do you want to be and going through a process. It doesn't happen overnight. For any of us, whether we're retiring from the military, or we're making our next step is our children may move out of their house, go on to college, or our parents are aging, every stage of life brings a transition. And some of them feel more stressful than others. But it requires hard work. And it's not a straight line. So thank you for sharing your story with us, we're actually going to shift now into the part of our episode we like to call the golden nugget. And often this is a fan favorite for the act 2 You're On listeners. If you have something that you can share with us, General Hammond, about your experience in life or your experience with Home Base, you could offer our listening audience about what they might rely upon as they head into their transition, what words would you care to share,General Hammond:
When you first brought this up, I was thinking - ah, a nugget. That's the kind of a daunting thing to come up with in 30 seconds. But then I gave it a couple more minutes. And a few years ago, I had you're familiar with military coins, and I had one made up in retirement as a retirement coin in a reflect some of my service. But Part One of the things I put on it was a personal motto. And I figured that's probably a good nugget to go with a head cast in metal. And I've got probably 100 of them sitting around. So it's an enduring thing. And on it's a Latin expression and it in translation, it states: Fortune favors the bold. And it's something that I've lived in believed my entire life. There are many, many people in life that will come up to you and say I could have I would have have I should have, but I didn't. And that's a sad thing. That's someone that's that's some things that are unfulfilled. And many times, you know, you step up to the edge, and you think about it. And for whatever reason you didn't get the support from other people, your circumstances are difficult. There's 1,000,001 reasons why you don't but but for the few that actually can summon the internal courage and just feel that inner strength and step through the looking glass into the unknown like Alice, right - Alice in Wonderland; your willingness to step through the looking glass into the unknown, takes some courage, personal courage to do that, because you don't know what's on the other side. But fortune does favor the bold, because once you do that, so many opportunities open up to you that you can take advantage of and then try and do the best for you. Regret is something that I think bothers people, if you embrace these challenges, and you know, I'm not talking about blindly leaping into something without any preparation, you do the time you do the proper preparation work. But if you have the intestinal fortitude, to step through the looking glass, Fortune does favor the bold people look to that next transition in their life. It takes courage, because the status quo is comfortable. When you make change, when you make big changes, it's uncomfortable. And that's deeply rooted in our lizard brains in our amygdala changes uncertainty certainly provokes fear. And it has triggered base responses to avoid it. You have to fight through that. When you believe there's something you want to do. And you've got to summon the courage and build that courage to move forward with and pursue your dreams.Rhonda:
Well, thank you for being a model of courage for all of us. It is a courageous thing to leave something behind and and take that next step. And it can feel very frightening. And you've been a source of support for us and just a amazing leader and friends. So thank you, General Hammond for everything you've got done for our family, and for everything you do for the military, our veterans and their families as well.Unknown:
Thanks, Rhonda. It's been a pleasure spending time with you today.Rhonda:
Before we go, I think people would be curious what's coming next for you or for Home Base? What can we expect from this pioneering operation?Unknown:
Well, Home Bases, there's something I was looking at - and we talked about reimagining what's possible. And that's what Home Base has done for a number of years. Right now, some of the things we're looking at include precision medicine, how do we take advantage of big data and artificial intelligence to better identify the challenges people are facing associated with mental health issues? How do we identify who's at most risk for depression and suicide so that we can intervene much sooner than we are now? Right now, we chasing the horse when it's out of the barn, we should identify these risk factors like we do with heart attack risk much sooner so you can take preventive actions so they never get that crisis mode. We're working with the tribal lands and Navajo Apache and Hopi Nation to try and develop clinical solutions in rural areas in tribal areas where people don't have access to good mental health care. So those are probably the top two things. And then finally, in brain injury care, it's one of the least understood areas of medicine. And we're working with teams from Harvard and Washington to try and build better solutions for that care as well.Rhonda:
Amazing. This is fascinating work. Friends, I'm sure you're like me, you're gonna want to support Home Base and learn more about this innovation, about their dreams, their goals and the work that's happening, you can check them out at homebase.org. That's homebase.org. To learn more, and support, of course, the incredible work that is happening there today in the work that will continue to happen. I would like to extend my thanks to our producer Cathy Carswell for making this possible. Today we do would not have the technology without her support. And of course, we're giving a shout out to Kate Leavey, we missed you today. But you're here in spirit as we all find the courage to move forward in our purpose and our dreams. Friends, thank you for joining us. And thank you for everyone who has served in the armed forces, our veterans and their military families. Thank you for what you do to preserve our freedoms and uphold the Constitution of the United States. So it is left for me to say go forth, be brave, live well and do good. Because it's Act Two you're onKate:
Act 2 You're Onwas brought to you by Act 2 Share our Stage. You can find us an a2yo.com and also on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.Rhonda:
Please download listen and subscribe. Wherever you find your podcast. You can support us using Patreon or buy us a coffee. I do like coffee. No no, you don't need any more caffeine gate. Bias a coffee is a platform that folks can use to support entrepreneurs and artists like usKate:
...so we can keep providing resources for the doers and dreamers to find connection, purpose and the skills needed to create a sustainable, fulfilling life to better serve the world. And also, so we can buy more coffee.Rhonda:
Oh Kate, thanks for listening everyone!